Tony , you did not answer the question ..............

Would you drive to work everyday so at the end of the week you had to pay $10.         It is a simple yes or no question . 

I am in no way shape or form for putting anyone out of work . The question was , if you were not to make money and pay money to go to work , would you go to work . basically what a factory losing money staying open is doing .I am using this as a comparison to keeping a factory that is losing money open . How long can a factory lose money and stay open . How far in the hole do they go until there is nothing left . How much plainer can it be to understand. Trucks are not selling . Should they continue to build trucks and just park them some where hoping someday they will sell them . Yes , they do need to come up with new vehicles and will need manufactures to produce them , but it is not going to happen overnight . After the rifigerator was invented should they have continued to make ice boxes that don't sell until they either run out of money or all of thier employees die ? I don't blame the Unions soley for the problems that the auto industry is experiencing . But yes , they are part of the equation . NAFTA is way more to blame than the Union .

i bought 1000 shares today tks guys

http://s178.photobucket.com/albums/w249/n2oron/?action=view&current=mrbeansride.jpg

LOL...Get mad at me ... I didn't close your factory , I didn't take your job , I am not the union that looked out for you and got you all those great things . But if that is how you would like to settle the debate I have been known to settle them that way a time or two before..LOL

FORMULAIII wrote:

LOL...Get mad at me ... I didn't close your factory , I didn't take your job , I am not the union that looked out for you and got you all those great things . But if that is how you would like to settle the debate I have been known to settle them that way a time or two before..LOL

NOT MAD AT YOU AT ALL. JUST THINK YOU HAVE MADE ALOT OF DUMB STATEMENTS. ESPECIALLY THE UNION IN THE 40 ,s WAS GREAT !! NOW THAT WAS LOL!!!

NO YOU DID NOT CLOSE MY FACTORY. MANGEMENT DID. AFTER THEY RAN THE BUSINESS DOWN THE TOILET.

YOUR RIGHT, YOUR NOT THE UNION THAT SAVED MY THIRTY YEARS OF GOING TO WORK WORRIED ABOUT LOSEING THAT $10.

AS FARR AS SETTLEING THIS DEBATE. ANYWAY YOU LIKE.  3:16 (yammie '' big '' tony)

prostock99 wrote:

First let me say, I will receive a Union Pension. 25 years in the Operating Engineers. Our Construction Co employees (Operators only, we still have teamsters and laborers in the union) voted themselves out of the Union. They now control their own pensions and 401K plan and healt care. I also believe the Automakers and Unions are responsible for the good wages and lifestyles we enjoyed till 1999. As an owner of a buisness, it really is not as easy as some think. We still provide health care, at no cost to the employee, and we insure the whole family. We were paying 15% to each employees 401k plan. We have reduced that amount to 7% this year. We will also be considering a co-pay for part of the health care, this is something we must do to stay competitive, it has nothing to do with the Unions. Hopefully when our employees leave they have saved enough to live a fairly good life. Lifetime pensions and health care, no way could any buisness do that today. Dave Dunigan

Dave,

 I can only cover my employees. I can not cover the family portion. $1,200.00/month for total family coverage w/ dental.  I pay $350/month for the employee portion.  I do profit sharing and match 401K up to 4% of total earnings. 3 weeks vacation.   Prevailing Rate is $35+/hour in Onondaga County. The make decent money on non-rate. Definately nothing to sneeze at.  If a guy opts out of insurance, I give it to him in his check.  My newest employee , other than secretarial, has been with me almost 9 years. The other end of the spectrum is 22 years.

HERE'S THE RUB

My biggest competitor has always refused to provide Health Insurance, so  his Employees are eligible for a State run insurance program AT NO COST, called Healthy NY. How do I compete with that?? Tell my employees I am no longer providing Insurance?? 

 I have eaten double digit insurance increases  every year I have been in business for myself. I am paying for my COMPETITORS insurance.

I make less working for myself, than when I worked for the company.  The contracts in general , are way down. The bigger jobs are all going factory direct, bypassing the subcontractors.Markups are 1/2 what they used to be.   We are seeing TONS of Chinese stuff come on the jobs. Worse yet, is it is better quality than our own.  I thought it was just us, but many manufactures and reps come to the shop, and say we are doing better than most. THAT is sad, because my volume is down. Not just this year. Its been a steady decline since the mid nineties.   Business sucks, and the politicians find a way to make it worse every year. I can only guess what Big Business is going through. They have it 3x as bad.

 Nice huh?

Everyone seems to think Big Business is making a fortune.   Well, if that is so, then tell me how your retirement programs  are coming. Are you doing 20-30% per year increases in 401Ks, Roths, Keoghs? ? No. 6-8%  Maybe. Right?? Well tell ya what. Those programs are all tied to the market, so essentially , you are a stockholder in a big business.  So if YOU arent making money in the market, NEITHER ARE THEY.  These CEOs dont get voted outrageous raises unless the major shareholders are happy. And they arent happy unless YOU and THEM make money off the stock. Thats just the way it is.